From jason at wirelesstoronto.ca  Thu Nov  6 12:33:34 2008
From: jason at wirelesstoronto.ca (jason roks)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:33:34 -0500
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
Message-ID: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>

Love to get the thoughts of people on this list on the recent announcement
from CRTC.

There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has deemed
the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you used to
see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very
interesting!

=j
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From nkovats at gmail.com  Thu Nov  6 13:24:15 2008
From: nkovats at gmail.com (Nicholas Kovats)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 13:24:15 -0500
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
In-Reply-To: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7b6a82ad0811061024u58441741yfe971669f0d4f602@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jason.

I do not see the actual declaration of white space as public domain in
the attached PDF you sent.

The CRTC seems to be mimicking FCC efforts. What are the exact public
domain frequencies? In the states only a few slivers of 700 MHZ
were/are available in contrast to the bottom end of 45 - 650+ MHZ
spectrum which is also opening up

I wonder what the specific frequency allocation will be up here in Canada?

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:33 PM, jason roks <jason at wirelesstoronto.ca> wrote:
> Love to get the thoughts of people on this list on the recent announcement
> from CRTC.
>
> There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has deemed
> the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you used to
> see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very
> interesting!
>
> =j
> _______________________________________________
> wirelesstoronto-discuss mailing list
> wirelesstoronto-discuss at wirelesstoronto.ca
> http://lists.wirelesstoronto.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wirelesstoronto-discuss
>
>


From andrew.cagney at yahoo.ca  Thu Nov  6 13:35:43 2008
From: andrew.cagney at yahoo.ca (Andrew Cagney)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:35:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] [wirelesstoronto-board] WHITE SPACE =
	PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
References: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <489394.48021.qm@web59506.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEASES/2008/r081030.htm

It is disappointing.  One personal nit is that they appear to be allowing cable companies to re-define "basic cable" to require the customer to either buy or rent a digital set-top-box when one isn't needed (c.f. rogers switching off its clear QAM signals).  Contrast this to the US where relayed free-to-air digital, just like free-to-air analog, is available unencrypted over basic cable and can be received using any modern digital TV.

Perhaps the free-to-air broadcasters will force the issue, since their request to charge the cable companies for the re-broadcast of their signals was rejected, they won't be so happy with a cable company charging extra for it.

Andrew




________________________________
From: jason roks <jason at wirelesstoronto.ca>
To: Discussion list for wirelesstoronto. <wirelesstoronto-discuss at wirelesstoronto.ca>
Cc: wifiTO <wirelesstoronto-board at wirelesstoronto.ca>
Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 12:33:34 PM
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-board] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA


Love to get the thoughts of people on this list on the recent announcement from CRTC.
 
There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has deemed the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you used to see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very interesting!
 
=j


      __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
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From jason at wirelesstoronto.ca  Thu Nov  6 13:36:26 2008
From: jason at wirelesstoronto.ca (jason roks)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 13:36:26 -0500
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
In-Reply-To: <7b6a82ad0811061024u58441741yfe971669f0d4f602@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
	<7b6a82ad0811061024u58441741yfe971669f0d4f602@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ff82f7880811061036l67cb84c4te1c1b8c92c0cefc1@mail.gmail.com>

my apologies-- I didn;t mean to attach the document. It just summarizes the
other announcments from the CRTC.

As I mentioned I heard it on the CBC radio this morning.

mimicking FCC in this case does not appear to be a bad thing.

I don;t know much more than that.
I have not seen any articleson this.

jr.



2008/11/6 Nicholas Kovats <nkovats at gmail.com>

> Hi Jason.
>
> I do not see the actual declaration of white space as public domain in
> the attached PDF you sent.
>
> The CRTC seems to be mimicking FCC efforts. What are the exact public
> domain frequencies? In the states only a few slivers of 700 MHZ
> were/are available in contrast to the bottom end of 45 - 650+ MHZ
> spectrum which is also opening up
>
> I wonder what the specific frequency allocation will be up here in Canada?
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:33 PM, jason roks <jason at wirelesstoronto.ca>
> wrote:
> > Love to get the thoughts of people on this list on the recent
> announcement
> > from CRTC.
> >
> > There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has
> deemed
> > the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you used
> to
> > see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very
> > interesting!
> >
> > =j
> > _______________________________________________
> > wirelesstoronto-discuss mailing list
> > wirelesstoronto-discuss at wirelesstoronto.ca
> >
> http://lists.wirelesstoronto.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wirelesstoronto-discuss
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> wirelesstoronto-discuss mailing list
> wirelesstoronto-discuss at wirelesstoronto.ca
>
> http://lists.wirelesstoronto.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wirelesstoronto-discuss
>
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From cho.hanna at gmail.com  Thu Nov  6 18:32:15 2008
From: cho.hanna at gmail.com (Hanna)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:32:15 -0800
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] [wirelesstoronto-board] WHITE SPACE =
	PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
In-Reply-To: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eab19db50811061532w3c3e0f96pa64cefd411160348@mail.gmail.com>

I think the CRTC ruling is a good thing.  A couple things that gave me pause
during a quick scan of the brief:

=> New forms of (targeted) advertising to be allowed.  (hm)
=> BDUs (broadcasters) now required to contribute 1% towards local
programming, above and beyond existing 5% levy for CANCON.  =)

a similar thing is going on in the US.  Read
MediaCitizen<http://mediacitizen.blogspot.com/2008/10/chicken-little-lobby-comes-to-new-york.html>
:

"The fight over white spaces pits those who *have* access to spectrum, and
want to keep it for themselves, against those who don't, and want spectrum
to be used to serve other purposes as well."


On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 9:33 AM, jason roks <jason at wirelesstoronto.ca> wrote:

> Love to get the thoughts of people on this list on the recent announcement
> from CRTC.
>
> There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has
> deemed the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you
> used to see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very
> interesting!
>
> =j
>
> _______________________________________________
> wirelesstoronto-board mailing list
> wirelesstoronto-board at wirelesstoronto.ca
>
> http://lists.wirelesstoronto.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wirelesstoronto-board
>
>


-- 
hanna

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://urban.blogs.com/seoul/
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From dl710 at torfree.net  Fri Nov  7 03:04:14 2008
From: dl710 at torfree.net (Dean)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:04:14 -0500
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
In-Reply-To: <mailman.293.1225992650.4337.wirelesstoronto-discuss@wirele
	sstoronto.ca>
References: <mailman.293.1225992650.4337.wirelesstoronto-discuss@wirelesstoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20081107005203.025f8718@torfree.net>

At 12:30 PM 06/11/2008, jason wrote:
>There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has deemed
>the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you used to
>see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very
>interesting!

There is (as of right now) no such announcement on the CRTC or 
Industry Canada websites. What radio station did you hear this on? 
Unfortunately it would appear that the information you heard was 
either incorrect or misunderstood.

First it needs to be understood that the "white spaces" you are 
referring to are actually radio frequencies, and fall within what is 
called the radio frequency spectrum or more accurately the 
electromagnetic spectrum. In Canada it covers all frequencies between 
9 kHz and 275 GHz, which includes everything that operates by way of 
transmitting a signal, i.e. shortwave radio, television, remote 
control toys, cell phones, etc.

Next it needs to be understood that the CRTC's authority is simply to 
regulate and supervise the Canadian broadcasting system and 
telecommunications carriers, as per the Broadcasting Act (1991), the 
Telecommunications Act (1993) and the Bell Canada Act (1987). In 
simpler terms, the CRTC's job is to insure that the rules are 
followed, and that the public broadcasters in Canada abide by them.

The most important thing though is that the CRTC has no authority or 
control over frequencies. That authority falls on Industry Canada's 
Spectrum Management and Telecommunications Sector who have full 
control over all frequency use and licences within Canadian 
boundaries. When a company wishes to start up a radio or TV station 
they must apply to both Industry Canada (IC) and the CRTC. If they 
meet all the requirements, IC will issue them a licence and assign 
them a frequency to operate on. The CRTC then will decide whether or 
not to grant them a broadcaster's license. If the IC chooses to not 
issue a license and assign a frequency, the CRTC has zero authority 
to overturn that decision, as they have zero control over the frequencies.

So was the information you heard wrong or misunderstood. Probably 
both. Every so often the government bodies from around the world who 
administer the frequencies in their contries get together for World 
Radio Conferences, which are convened by the International 
Telecommunication Union. Canada's frequency band plan is uniquely (to 
a degree anyway) Canadian, but it is based on provisions set during 
these conferences.

Up until last year the official band plan for Canada listed TV 
Channels 2-6 operating from 54 to 88 MHz, channels 7 - 13 at 174 - 
220 MHz, and channels 14 - 69 at 470 - 806 MHz. Can this change? Yes, 
in fact the band plan that went into effect last year shows a change 
to that by removing the last ten channels, it only shows TV channels 
going up to channel 59. Additionally starting last year and into the 
beginning of this year there where discussion about reassigning 763 - 
806 MHz to public safety. This represents TV channels 63 - 69 and 
effects 18 TV stations across Canada including two here in Toronto. 
Is there a precedent for this? You bet. Those of us who are a bit on 
the older side may recall that CityTV use to be Channel 79. What 
happened was that all the TV frequencies over 806 MHz were 
reassigned, primary because of Cell Phones, but also to public safety 
and commercial trunk radio systems that share the 800 Mhz band. As a 
result of this CityTV had to move to a TV frequency below 806, which 
meant moving from channel 79 to it's current 57.

It's likely that it was some sort of change like this that was being 
referred to in what you heard, and was perhaps misunderstood, or 
simply miss-communicated by a script writer at the station.


It is worth noting at this point, that it has ALWAYS generally been 
considered by the Canadian government that radio frequency spectrum 
is in the public domain. And more specifically a publicly own asset 
administered and protected by the federal government on behalf of all 
Canadian citizens. It is this thinking that has actually protected us 
from laws and regulations that have been instituted by other 
governments including the USA and UK.


Dean





From dl710 at torfree.net  Fri Nov  7 19:34:01 2008
From: dl710 at torfree.net (Dean)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:34:01 -0500
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1226077203.11504.wirelesstoronto-discuss@wireles
	storonto.ca>
References: <mailman.3.1226077203.11504.wirelesstoronto-discuss@wirelesstoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20081107133226.025f7980@torfree.net>


>Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:35:43 -0800 (PST)
>From: Andrew Cagney <andrew.cagney at yahoo.ca>
>
>http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEASES/2008/r081030.htm

No where in this document does it mention "white spaces", unused TV 
channels, or the frequencies allocated to them.

>One personal nit is that they appear to be allowing cable companies 
>to re-define "basic cable" to require the customer to either buy or 
>rent a digital set-top-box when one isn't needed

Curious. I'm not sure where you got this from. A majority of the 
document discusses changes to how cable and satellite providers offer 
the premium "pay and specialty" channels. That entire document only 
mentions basic cable twice
"require broadcasting distribution companies to continue offering a 
basic service package after the transition to digital"
"The Commission has determined that broadcasting distribution 
companies must continue to offer community channels with their basic 
service packages."

>(c.f. rogers switching off its clear QAM signals).

This likely has more to do with Rogers current push to get more 
people to subscribe to premium services then anything the CRTC has 
done. For the last couple of months Rogers has been offering bulk 
subscribers (i.e. condos who pay a slightly discounted per-unit rate 
by buying service for all the units in one package) free digital 
boxes to all the units. There has been no mention of including any 
services however, it appears to just be the box.



>Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:32:15 -0800
>From: Hanna
>
>=> BDUs (broadcasters) now required to contribute 1% towards local
>programming, above and beyond existing 5% levy for CANCON.  =)

It's broadcast distribution companies, cable and and satellite 
providers, that will pay this, not the broadcasters as one might 
understand you to mean.

"The CRTC will also support local programming by increasing to 6 per 
cent, up from 5 per cent, the contribution broadcasting distribution 
companies must make to Canadian programming. This increase will 
amount to approximately $60 million and will be allocated to a new 
Local Programming Improvement Fund."

>a similar thing is going on in the US.  Read MediaCitizen:
>"The fight over white spaces pits those who *have* access to spectrum, and
>want to keep it for themselves, against those who don't, and want spectrum
>to be used to serve other purposes as well."

Unfortunately the blog post you refer to is, to say the least, 
extremely biased and shows little understanding of radio (which 
includes TV) transmissions. I found the authors relentless attacks 
against "powerful lobbyist the National Association of Broadcasters 
(NAB)" extremely disturbing and disrespectful given that he himself 
represents a lobbyist group. There were a number of points in that 
authors blog post, I found ... well... let's just say interesting.

"New technology can open white spaces to powerful high-speed Internet 
services -- sending open and ubiquitous broadband signals over 
mountains and through buildings, potentially connecting tens of 
millions of Americans to the Web."

This shows a complete lack of understanding in basic radio 
transmissions. You can't send a signal "over mountains", at least not 
easily. Airlines, the military, and other organizations have spent 
billions of dollars building and maintaining repeaters for the 
singular purpose of getting their radio transmissions over mountains 
so that they can be picked up on the other side.

While the transmitted signals do go through buildings, every building 
effects it and reduces it's strength. This is especially true in 
urban cores where a majority of the buildings are built using steel 
and concrete. Even something as simple as a clump of trees can 
prevent transmissions from being received. Television broadcasters 
have spent decades and millions of dollars dealing with these issues. 
Take Toronto for example. What do you think our famous landmark the 
CN Tower really is? It is a transmitting tower. You know that bubble 
or dome like area at the bottom of the main pod (below the restaurant 
and observation deck), that is actually a teflon-coated fiberglass 
fabric to protect all of the transmitters and microwave transmission 
equipment hidden inside and used by every major broadcaster in 
Toronto (television and radio).

There are a few other comments in his blog post and speech that 
deserve commenting on, but more importunately I want to comment on 
the statement you quoted.

"The fight over white spaces pits those who *have* access to spectrum, and
want to keep it for themselves, against those who don't, and want spectrum
to be used to serve other purposes as well."

The spectrum as a whole is quite large. As I pointed out in my 
previous reply, in Canada the band plan covers 9 kHz to 275 GHz. The 
US's band plan will be similar. Ok, so just how big is that. Well 
Kilo-, Mega-, and Giga- all mean the same as in computers. 1 KHz = 
1000 Hz, 1 MHz = 1000 KHz, 1 GHz = 1000 MHz If you calculate it out, 
that means that the Canadian band plan covers a frequency range of 
274,999,991,000 Hz.  Just how much of that is assigned to TV broadcasts?
Channels 2 to 6 = 54 to 88 MHz = a span of 34 MHz
channels 7 to 13 = 174 to 220 MHz = a span of 46 MHz
channels 14 to 69 = 470 to 806 MHz  = a span of 336 MHz
34 + 46 + 336 = 416 MHz in total allocated to TV broadcasts.
416 Mhz = 416,000,000 Hz.
416,000,000 Hz / 274,999,991,000 Hz * 100 = 0.15%

That's right, TV broadcasts are only assigned 0.15% of the allocated 
spectrum. That leaves 99.85% available to "other purposes". Granted, 
much of it is being used by other people, including Police, Fire, 
Ambulance, Municipal Departments, commercial users, etc, but that 
doesn't mean there aren't areas which could be used, so why pick on 
TV. Given how little of the spectrum TV broadcasters actually "have", 
his "haves vs have nots" statement just doesn't hold water.


If someone is thinking, like the author of that blog, that the TV 
frequencies could be used to develop a new wireless broadband system, 
consider how much money Toronto Hydro spent on building their WiFi 
system, and how much it cost to access it, and that was using 
existing and proven technologies. Also consider the new services 
offered by Rogers which claims to provide broadband service 
everywhere (the "play-off ticket auction aboard a ferry" commercial, 
and the newer husband and wife commercial) and how expensive that service is.

Dean







From cho.hanna at gmail.com  Thu Nov 13 19:21:40 2008
From: cho.hanna at gmail.com (Hanna)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:21:40 -0800
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] IBM backing rural BPL project in US
Message-ID: <eab19db50811131621p24949a42n5b646cd026032b65@mail.gmail.com>

of interest:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081112.wgtbroadband1112/BNStory/Technology/home

"IBM is partnering with a small newcomer called International Broadband
Electric Communications Inc. to try to make the idea work in rural
communities that don't have other broadband options.
...

The key innovation introduced in the past few years, Blair said, is the
ability to remotely control the devices fixed to power lines. That way it
can be told to switch frequency when it meets interference.

IBM has signed a $9.6-million (U.S.) deal with IBEC to provide and install
the equipment. IBEC Chief Executive Scott Lee said putting the network in
place should take about two years and cost as much as $70-million.

The company will have access to 340,000 homes in Alabama, Indiana, Maryland,
Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia, and Wisconsin, about 86 per cent of which
have no cable or DSL access, Mr. Lee said.

Capturing a large segment of that market would be a huge step for IBEC,
which currently provides only about 1,400 customers with broadband, most of
them starting in the past year and half.

The basic service will start at $29.95 a month, with more expensive plans
offering higher speeds.

IBEC has had help along the way from the federal government: Lee said the
company has received $70-million in low-interest loans from the Department
of Agriculture. Federal officials have seen broadband over power lines as an
attractive option for spreading economic development in rural areas."
-- 
hanna

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://urban.blogs.com/seoul/
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From cho.hanna at gmail.com  Wed Nov 19 18:17:15 2008
From: cho.hanna at gmail.com (Hanna)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:17:15 -0800
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] ONT Gov't e-Panels on Dig.Divide
Message-ID: <eab19db50811191517t79b8b61ck416aa047c9dd88b4@mail.gmail.com>

FYI

========

The Ministry of Government Services in Ontario is organizing three
online discussions exploring some of the key themes from our research on
digital divide and access.  These online events, which we are calling
ePanels, take place:



November 25:  Creating a More Connected Community with Broadband:  An
Intelligent Communities ePanel 9:00 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. EST.  ICF
co-founder Louis Zacharilla will lead a panel of experts from Cleveland
(Lev Gonick), Glasgow (Gordon Kennedy), Sunderland (Thomas Hurst) and
Tianjin (William Lin) to discuss how their communities are using
broadband to help citizens and organizations increase their economic
competitiveness, expand their knowledge and improve living standards.
http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/intelligentcommunities/
<http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/intelligentcommunities/>



December 1:  Retooling for the 21st Century: Digital Skills and Literacy
ePanel 10:00 to 11:30 a.m. EST.  York University professor Barbara Crow
will lead a panel of academics and researchers (Leslie Regan Shade,
Jennifer Jenson and Greg Elmer) who will explore how new broadband uses
and applications, namely web 2.0 and 3.0, require new skills and
literacy.  http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/digitalskills/
<http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/digitalskills/>



December 3:  Speed Matters in Ontario:  Digital Infrastructure Capacity
ePanel 1:00 to 2:30 p.m. EST.  Chair of Toronto Waterfront "iWaterfront
Advisory Board" Bill Hutchison will lead a panel (Matt Wenger, Paul
Hearty and Paul Salvini) who will discuss the drivers and benefits for
faster broadband, and next generation technologies such as fibre optics.


http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/digitalinfrastructure/
<http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/digitalinfrastructure/>



You must pre-register for these ePanels at digitalontario at ontario.ca
-- 
hanna

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://urban.blogs.com/seoul/
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From jason at wirelesstoronto.ca  Thu Nov  6 12:33:34 2008
From: jason at wirelesstoronto.ca (jason roks)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:33:34 -0500
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
Message-ID: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>

Love to get the thoughts of people on this list on the recent announcement
from CRTC.

There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has deemed
the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you used to
see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very
interesting!

=j
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From nkovats at gmail.com  Thu Nov  6 13:24:15 2008
From: nkovats at gmail.com (Nicholas Kovats)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 13:24:15 -0500
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
In-Reply-To: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7b6a82ad0811061024u58441741yfe971669f0d4f602@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jason.

I do not see the actual declaration of white space as public domain in
the attached PDF you sent.

The CRTC seems to be mimicking FCC efforts. What are the exact public
domain frequencies? In the states only a few slivers of 700 MHZ
were/are available in contrast to the bottom end of 45 - 650+ MHZ
spectrum which is also opening up

I wonder what the specific frequency allocation will be up here in Canada?

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:33 PM, jason roks <jason at wirelesstoronto.ca> wrote:
> Love to get the thoughts of people on this list on the recent announcement
> from CRTC.
>
> There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has deemed
> the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you used to
> see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very
> interesting!
>
> =j
> _______________________________________________
> wirelesstoronto-discuss mailing list
> wirelesstoronto-discuss at wirelesstoronto.ca
> http://lists.wirelesstoronto.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wirelesstoronto-discuss
>
>


From andrew.cagney at yahoo.ca  Thu Nov  6 13:35:43 2008
From: andrew.cagney at yahoo.ca (Andrew Cagney)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:35:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] [wirelesstoronto-board] WHITE SPACE =
	PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
References: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <489394.48021.qm@web59506.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEASES/2008/r081030.htm

It is disappointing.  One personal nit is that they appear to be allowing cable companies to re-define "basic cable" to require the customer to either buy or rent a digital set-top-box when one isn't needed (c.f. rogers switching off its clear QAM signals).  Contrast this to the US where relayed free-to-air digital, just like free-to-air analog, is available unencrypted over basic cable and can be received using any modern digital TV.

Perhaps the free-to-air broadcasters will force the issue, since their request to charge the cable companies for the re-broadcast of their signals was rejected, they won't be so happy with a cable company charging extra for it.

Andrew




________________________________
From: jason roks <jason at wirelesstoronto.ca>
To: Discussion list for wirelesstoronto. <wirelesstoronto-discuss at wirelesstoronto.ca>
Cc: wifiTO <wirelesstoronto-board at wirelesstoronto.ca>
Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2008 12:33:34 PM
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-board] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA


Love to get the thoughts of people on this list on the recent announcement from CRTC.
 
There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has deemed the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you used to see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very interesting!
 
=j


      __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
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From jason at wirelesstoronto.ca  Thu Nov  6 13:36:26 2008
From: jason at wirelesstoronto.ca (jason roks)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 13:36:26 -0500
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
In-Reply-To: <7b6a82ad0811061024u58441741yfe971669f0d4f602@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
	<7b6a82ad0811061024u58441741yfe971669f0d4f602@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ff82f7880811061036l67cb84c4te1c1b8c92c0cefc1@mail.gmail.com>

my apologies-- I didn;t mean to attach the document. It just summarizes the
other announcments from the CRTC.

As I mentioned I heard it on the CBC radio this morning.

mimicking FCC in this case does not appear to be a bad thing.

I don;t know much more than that.
I have not seen any articleson this.

jr.



2008/11/6 Nicholas Kovats <nkovats at gmail.com>

> Hi Jason.
>
> I do not see the actual declaration of white space as public domain in
> the attached PDF you sent.
>
> The CRTC seems to be mimicking FCC efforts. What are the exact public
> domain frequencies? In the states only a few slivers of 700 MHZ
> were/are available in contrast to the bottom end of 45 - 650+ MHZ
> spectrum which is also opening up
>
> I wonder what the specific frequency allocation will be up here in Canada?
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:33 PM, jason roks <jason at wirelesstoronto.ca>
> wrote:
> > Love to get the thoughts of people on this list on the recent
> announcement
> > from CRTC.
> >
> > There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has
> deemed
> > the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you used
> to
> > see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very
> > interesting!
> >
> > =j
> > _______________________________________________
> > wirelesstoronto-discuss mailing list
> > wirelesstoronto-discuss at wirelesstoronto.ca
> >
> http://lists.wirelesstoronto.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wirelesstoronto-discuss
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> wirelesstoronto-discuss mailing list
> wirelesstoronto-discuss at wirelesstoronto.ca
>
> http://lists.wirelesstoronto.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wirelesstoronto-discuss
>
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From cho.hanna at gmail.com  Thu Nov  6 18:32:15 2008
From: cho.hanna at gmail.com (Hanna)
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:32:15 -0800
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] [wirelesstoronto-board] WHITE SPACE =
	PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
In-Reply-To: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ff82f7880811060933g53e9a158l63c4172ffc546f11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eab19db50811061532w3c3e0f96pa64cefd411160348@mail.gmail.com>

I think the CRTC ruling is a good thing.  A couple things that gave me pause
during a quick scan of the brief:

=> New forms of (targeted) advertising to be allowed.  (hm)
=> BDUs (broadcasters) now required to contribute 1% towards local
programming, above and beyond existing 5% levy for CANCON.  =)

a similar thing is going on in the US.  Read
MediaCitizen<http://mediacitizen.blogspot.com/2008/10/chicken-little-lobby-comes-to-new-york.html>
:

"The fight over white spaces pits those who *have* access to spectrum, and
want to keep it for themselves, against those who don't, and want spectrum
to be used to serve other purposes as well."


On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 9:33 AM, jason roks <jason at wirelesstoronto.ca> wrote:

> Love to get the thoughts of people on this list on the recent announcement
> from CRTC.
>
> There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has
> deemed the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you
> used to see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very
> interesting!
>
> =j
>
> _______________________________________________
> wirelesstoronto-board mailing list
> wirelesstoronto-board at wirelesstoronto.ca
>
> http://lists.wirelesstoronto.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wirelesstoronto-board
>
>


-- 
hanna

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://urban.blogs.com/seoul/
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From dl710 at torfree.net  Fri Nov  7 03:04:14 2008
From: dl710 at torfree.net (Dean)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:04:14 -0500
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
In-Reply-To: <mailman.293.1225992650.4337.wirelesstoronto-discuss@wirele
	sstoronto.ca>
References: <mailman.293.1225992650.4337.wirelesstoronto-discuss@wirelesstoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20081107005203.025f8718@torfree.net>

At 12:30 PM 06/11/2008, jason wrote:
>There was an announcement this morning on the radio that the CRTC has deemed
>the white space (wavelengths/spectrums between TV channels that you used to
>see when you changes channels using knobs) as public domain -- very
>interesting!

There is (as of right now) no such announcement on the CRTC or 
Industry Canada websites. What radio station did you hear this on? 
Unfortunately it would appear that the information you heard was 
either incorrect or misunderstood.

First it needs to be understood that the "white spaces" you are 
referring to are actually radio frequencies, and fall within what is 
called the radio frequency spectrum or more accurately the 
electromagnetic spectrum. In Canada it covers all frequencies between 
9 kHz and 275 GHz, which includes everything that operates by way of 
transmitting a signal, i.e. shortwave radio, television, remote 
control toys, cell phones, etc.

Next it needs to be understood that the CRTC's authority is simply to 
regulate and supervise the Canadian broadcasting system and 
telecommunications carriers, as per the Broadcasting Act (1991), the 
Telecommunications Act (1993) and the Bell Canada Act (1987). In 
simpler terms, the CRTC's job is to insure that the rules are 
followed, and that the public broadcasters in Canada abide by them.

The most important thing though is that the CRTC has no authority or 
control over frequencies. That authority falls on Industry Canada's 
Spectrum Management and Telecommunications Sector who have full 
control over all frequency use and licences within Canadian 
boundaries. When a company wishes to start up a radio or TV station 
they must apply to both Industry Canada (IC) and the CRTC. If they 
meet all the requirements, IC will issue them a licence and assign 
them a frequency to operate on. The CRTC then will decide whether or 
not to grant them a broadcaster's license. If the IC chooses to not 
issue a license and assign a frequency, the CRTC has zero authority 
to overturn that decision, as they have zero control over the frequencies.

So was the information you heard wrong or misunderstood. Probably 
both. Every so often the government bodies from around the world who 
administer the frequencies in their contries get together for World 
Radio Conferences, which are convened by the International 
Telecommunication Union. Canada's frequency band plan is uniquely (to 
a degree anyway) Canadian, but it is based on provisions set during 
these conferences.

Up until last year the official band plan for Canada listed TV 
Channels 2-6 operating from 54 to 88 MHz, channels 7 - 13 at 174 - 
220 MHz, and channels 14 - 69 at 470 - 806 MHz. Can this change? Yes, 
in fact the band plan that went into effect last year shows a change 
to that by removing the last ten channels, it only shows TV channels 
going up to channel 59. Additionally starting last year and into the 
beginning of this year there where discussion about reassigning 763 - 
806 MHz to public safety. This represents TV channels 63 - 69 and 
effects 18 TV stations across Canada including two here in Toronto. 
Is there a precedent for this? You bet. Those of us who are a bit on 
the older side may recall that CityTV use to be Channel 79. What 
happened was that all the TV frequencies over 806 MHz were 
reassigned, primary because of Cell Phones, but also to public safety 
and commercial trunk radio systems that share the 800 Mhz band. As a 
result of this CityTV had to move to a TV frequency below 806, which 
meant moving from channel 79 to it's current 57.

It's likely that it was some sort of change like this that was being 
referred to in what you heard, and was perhaps misunderstood, or 
simply miss-communicated by a script writer at the station.


It is worth noting at this point, that it has ALWAYS generally been 
considered by the Canadian government that radio frequency spectrum 
is in the public domain. And more specifically a publicly own asset 
administered and protected by the federal government on behalf of all 
Canadian citizens. It is this thinking that has actually protected us 
from laws and regulations that have been instituted by other 
governments including the USA and UK.


Dean





From dl710 at torfree.net  Fri Nov  7 19:34:01 2008
From: dl710 at torfree.net (Dean)
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:34:01 -0500
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] WHITE SPACE = PUBLIC DOMAIN IN CANADA
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1226077203.11504.wirelesstoronto-discuss@wireles
	storonto.ca>
References: <mailman.3.1226077203.11504.wirelesstoronto-discuss@wirelesstoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20081107133226.025f7980@torfree.net>


>Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:35:43 -0800 (PST)
>From: Andrew Cagney <andrew.cagney at yahoo.ca>
>
>http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEASES/2008/r081030.htm

No where in this document does it mention "white spaces", unused TV 
channels, or the frequencies allocated to them.

>One personal nit is that they appear to be allowing cable companies 
>to re-define "basic cable" to require the customer to either buy or 
>rent a digital set-top-box when one isn't needed

Curious. I'm not sure where you got this from. A majority of the 
document discusses changes to how cable and satellite providers offer 
the premium "pay and specialty" channels. That entire document only 
mentions basic cable twice
"require broadcasting distribution companies to continue offering a 
basic service package after the transition to digital"
"The Commission has determined that broadcasting distribution 
companies must continue to offer community channels with their basic 
service packages."

>(c.f. rogers switching off its clear QAM signals).

This likely has more to do with Rogers current push to get more 
people to subscribe to premium services then anything the CRTC has 
done. For the last couple of months Rogers has been offering bulk 
subscribers (i.e. condos who pay a slightly discounted per-unit rate 
by buying service for all the units in one package) free digital 
boxes to all the units. There has been no mention of including any 
services however, it appears to just be the box.



>Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:32:15 -0800
>From: Hanna
>
>=> BDUs (broadcasters) now required to contribute 1% towards local
>programming, above and beyond existing 5% levy for CANCON.  =)

It's broadcast distribution companies, cable and and satellite 
providers, that will pay this, not the broadcasters as one might 
understand you to mean.

"The CRTC will also support local programming by increasing to 6 per 
cent, up from 5 per cent, the contribution broadcasting distribution 
companies must make to Canadian programming. This increase will 
amount to approximately $60 million and will be allocated to a new 
Local Programming Improvement Fund."

>a similar thing is going on in the US.  Read MediaCitizen:
>"The fight over white spaces pits those who *have* access to spectrum, and
>want to keep it for themselves, against those who don't, and want spectrum
>to be used to serve other purposes as well."

Unfortunately the blog post you refer to is, to say the least, 
extremely biased and shows little understanding of radio (which 
includes TV) transmissions. I found the authors relentless attacks 
against "powerful lobbyist the National Association of Broadcasters 
(NAB)" extremely disturbing and disrespectful given that he himself 
represents a lobbyist group. There were a number of points in that 
authors blog post, I found ... well... let's just say interesting.

"New technology can open white spaces to powerful high-speed Internet 
services -- sending open and ubiquitous broadband signals over 
mountains and through buildings, potentially connecting tens of 
millions of Americans to the Web."

This shows a complete lack of understanding in basic radio 
transmissions. You can't send a signal "over mountains", at least not 
easily. Airlines, the military, and other organizations have spent 
billions of dollars building and maintaining repeaters for the 
singular purpose of getting their radio transmissions over mountains 
so that they can be picked up on the other side.

While the transmitted signals do go through buildings, every building 
effects it and reduces it's strength. This is especially true in 
urban cores where a majority of the buildings are built using steel 
and concrete. Even something as simple as a clump of trees can 
prevent transmissions from being received. Television broadcasters 
have spent decades and millions of dollars dealing with these issues. 
Take Toronto for example. What do you think our famous landmark the 
CN Tower really is? It is a transmitting tower. You know that bubble 
or dome like area at the bottom of the main pod (below the restaurant 
and observation deck), that is actually a teflon-coated fiberglass 
fabric to protect all of the transmitters and microwave transmission 
equipment hidden inside and used by every major broadcaster in 
Toronto (television and radio).

There are a few other comments in his blog post and speech that 
deserve commenting on, but more importunately I want to comment on 
the statement you quoted.

"The fight over white spaces pits those who *have* access to spectrum, and
want to keep it for themselves, against those who don't, and want spectrum
to be used to serve other purposes as well."

The spectrum as a whole is quite large. As I pointed out in my 
previous reply, in Canada the band plan covers 9 kHz to 275 GHz. The 
US's band plan will be similar. Ok, so just how big is that. Well 
Kilo-, Mega-, and Giga- all mean the same as in computers. 1 KHz = 
1000 Hz, 1 MHz = 1000 KHz, 1 GHz = 1000 MHz If you calculate it out, 
that means that the Canadian band plan covers a frequency range of 
274,999,991,000 Hz.  Just how much of that is assigned to TV broadcasts?
Channels 2 to 6 = 54 to 88 MHz = a span of 34 MHz
channels 7 to 13 = 174 to 220 MHz = a span of 46 MHz
channels 14 to 69 = 470 to 806 MHz  = a span of 336 MHz
34 + 46 + 336 = 416 MHz in total allocated to TV broadcasts.
416 Mhz = 416,000,000 Hz.
416,000,000 Hz / 274,999,991,000 Hz * 100 = 0.15%

That's right, TV broadcasts are only assigned 0.15% of the allocated 
spectrum. That leaves 99.85% available to "other purposes". Granted, 
much of it is being used by other people, including Police, Fire, 
Ambulance, Municipal Departments, commercial users, etc, but that 
doesn't mean there aren't areas which could be used, so why pick on 
TV. Given how little of the spectrum TV broadcasters actually "have", 
his "haves vs have nots" statement just doesn't hold water.


If someone is thinking, like the author of that blog, that the TV 
frequencies could be used to develop a new wireless broadband system, 
consider how much money Toronto Hydro spent on building their WiFi 
system, and how much it cost to access it, and that was using 
existing and proven technologies. Also consider the new services 
offered by Rogers which claims to provide broadband service 
everywhere (the "play-off ticket auction aboard a ferry" commercial, 
and the newer husband and wife commercial) and how expensive that service is.

Dean







From cho.hanna at gmail.com  Thu Nov 13 19:21:40 2008
From: cho.hanna at gmail.com (Hanna)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:21:40 -0800
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] IBM backing rural BPL project in US
Message-ID: <eab19db50811131621p24949a42n5b646cd026032b65@mail.gmail.com>

of interest:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081112.wgtbroadband1112/BNStory/Technology/home

"IBM is partnering with a small newcomer called International Broadband
Electric Communications Inc. to try to make the idea work in rural
communities that don't have other broadband options.
...

The key innovation introduced in the past few years, Blair said, is the
ability to remotely control the devices fixed to power lines. That way it
can be told to switch frequency when it meets interference.

IBM has signed a $9.6-million (U.S.) deal with IBEC to provide and install
the equipment. IBEC Chief Executive Scott Lee said putting the network in
place should take about two years and cost as much as $70-million.

The company will have access to 340,000 homes in Alabama, Indiana, Maryland,
Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia, and Wisconsin, about 86 per cent of which
have no cable or DSL access, Mr. Lee said.

Capturing a large segment of that market would be a huge step for IBEC,
which currently provides only about 1,400 customers with broadband, most of
them starting in the past year and half.

The basic service will start at $29.95 a month, with more expensive plans
offering higher speeds.

IBEC has had help along the way from the federal government: Lee said the
company has received $70-million in low-interest loans from the Department
of Agriculture. Federal officials have seen broadband over power lines as an
attractive option for spreading economic development in rural areas."
-- 
hanna

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://urban.blogs.com/seoul/
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From cho.hanna at gmail.com  Wed Nov 19 18:17:15 2008
From: cho.hanna at gmail.com (Hanna)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:17:15 -0800
Subject: [wirelesstoronto-discuss] ONT Gov't e-Panels on Dig.Divide
Message-ID: <eab19db50811191517t79b8b61ck416aa047c9dd88b4@mail.gmail.com>

FYI

========

The Ministry of Government Services in Ontario is organizing three
online discussions exploring some of the key themes from our research on
digital divide and access.  These online events, which we are calling
ePanels, take place:



November 25:  Creating a More Connected Community with Broadband:  An
Intelligent Communities ePanel 9:00 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. EST.  ICF
co-founder Louis Zacharilla will lead a panel of experts from Cleveland
(Lev Gonick), Glasgow (Gordon Kennedy), Sunderland (Thomas Hurst) and
Tianjin (William Lin) to discuss how their communities are using
broadband to help citizens and organizations increase their economic
competitiveness, expand their knowledge and improve living standards.
http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/intelligentcommunities/
<http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/intelligentcommunities/>



December 1:  Retooling for the 21st Century: Digital Skills and Literacy
ePanel 10:00 to 11:30 a.m. EST.  York University professor Barbara Crow
will lead a panel of academics and researchers (Leslie Regan Shade,
Jennifer Jenson and Greg Elmer) who will explore how new broadband uses
and applications, namely web 2.0 and 3.0, require new skills and
literacy.  http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/digitalskills/
<http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/digitalskills/>



December 3:  Speed Matters in Ontario:  Digital Infrastructure Capacity
ePanel 1:00 to 2:30 p.m. EST.  Chair of Toronto Waterfront "iWaterfront
Advisory Board" Bill Hutchison will lead a panel (Matt Wenger, Paul
Hearty and Paul Salvini) who will discuss the drivers and benefits for
faster broadband, and next generation technologies such as fibre optics.


http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/digitalinfrastructure/
<http://digitalontario.na3.acrobat.com/digitalinfrastructure/>



You must pre-register for these ePanels at digitalontario at ontario.ca
-- 
hanna

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
http://urban.blogs.com/seoul/
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